Let's see what Bush has done for the vets!

0,zip,nada

Lets see what Bush has done period!

1. More houses for poor

2. 50% increase in FORIEGN AID

3. 500 Million for AIDS in Africa

4. Millions for Arafat (continued supports for PLO)

5. Amnesty for illegal aliens

and on and on

BUSH is willing to pay for just about anything except VETERANS

It has taken over 100 years to get this injustice righted. The only one standing in the way of correcting this travesty is GWB.

Call,fax,email the Whitehouse and Congress and support Retired Disabled Vets.

A word to those FREEPERS who don't think Retired Disabled Vets deserve Disablility and Retirement. If I could work a job and collect my military pension (which is what I had planned to do) I and most Retired Disabled Vets would, but many of us who are 60% - 100% disabled are unemployable, unable to hold a job.

Please, BTTT so all can read.

FYI, you can find AP articles at many online news sites other than the Washington Post. Yahoo and NYT for instance:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne ws?tmpl=story&u=/ap/200206 19/ap_on_go_co/congress_defens e_5

http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin e/national/AP-Congress-Defense.html

This has been the weakest link in the veteran care chain. A 60% disabled veteran is not able to hold down most jobs. After devoting his career and retiring to the United States defense, the pensioner deserves to be paid for his disability the same as the vet that did not make a career of the service.

I am a DAV and feel that I earned my disability pay, even though I did not make a career of the service. It seems that we can fund any and every scheme that comes along but always get very concious of the tax burden when veteran benefits come along. It doesn't make sense.

Post from the original thread that were deleted, because I posted a complete AP article which happened to be in the Washington Compost.

Posted by billybudd to Militiaman7
On Jun 20 1:40 AM #2 of 12

I'm not big on government increasing funding on any of its programs, but it is ironic, Bush funding all kinds of foreign aid to Africa, but refusing to increase retirement benefits for our veterans.
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Posted by mrsmith to Militiaman7
On Jun 20 1:42 AM #3 of 12

" senior advisers would recommend that the president veto the bill "
Bush hasn't said he will veto the bill.
I think they will compromise on the House version giving full pay to those 60% or more disabled.
And rightfully so- this system has long been a disgrace!
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Posted by MissAmericanPie to Militiaman7
On Jun 20 1:42 AM #4 of 12

Oh I see, NOW he finds his veto pen.
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Posted by Militiaman7 to billybudd
On Jun 20 1:48 AM #5 of 12

It is ironic. Now it can be corrected and only Bush is in the way.
ps: It isn't an increase in retirement benefits. Its paying Retired Disabled Vets their pension which they earned for 20 years or more of service.
By the way this retirement pay has been budgeted every year by DOD and is paid for in the defense budget, but they used the money for the pensions of disabled vets for something else. Ask you congressperson if this isn't the truth.
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Posted by ArneFufkin to Militiaman7
On Jun 20 1:53 AM #6 of 12

What is 60% disability? Who measures that? What are your current benefits and what is your % disability?
How much are you receiving a month now, and how much will you receive a month if this bill passes?
What is your total compensation in pension and disability a month right now?
I'm curious about context here. Thanks.
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Posted by Militiaman7 to ArneFufkin
On Jun 20 2:07 AM #7 of 12

You can find all the info you ask for at: Department of Veterans Affairs
More information on Concurrent Reciept at: Uniformed Service Disabled Retirees
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Posted by ArneFufkin to Militiaman7
On Jun 20 2:09 AM #8 of 12

A couple more questions. These disabilities ... if a Ranger blows his knee out in jump training and has arthritis 20 years later ... is that a disability? What if he's in a vehicle collision and he has chronic neck injuries? The emotional signal is that Bush is turning his back on those injured in battle. Are all these disabled veterans suffering battle disability? If a cadet slips in the latrine and lands on his hip .... is that considered a disability 20 years later? If somebody retires at 41 after 20 years service, and a disability evolves say at 54 ... what is the process to ensure that his injuries weren't suffered after his service?
Whose watching our money here? My cynical reaction is that EVERYBODY's going to come away 60+% disabled.
My concern: The State Workers Comp programs are a corrupt fraud. Everyone is disabled. Everyone gets a check. Nobody is told they aren't hurting. The workers comp lawyers and chiros and rehab consultants are all lunching regularly together. It's a complete scam, I know it because my girlfriend at the time worked for a rehab consultant and she quit in disgust. It's killing businesses here.
I am VERY suspicious of this thing.
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Posted by ArneFufkin to Militiaman7
On Jun 20 2:10 AM #9 of 12

I'd like you to describe YOUR situation, sir. You came out yelling and villifying the President's position ... YOU tell me about the system.
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Posted by Militiaman7 to ArneFufkin
On Jun 20 2:24 AM #10 of 12
How dare you question my disability. I've had to prove it over and over again to countless doctors, bureaucrats, and I'm not about to do it again. Especially to you.
Your questions and attitude show nothing but contempt for the honorable service of all disabled veterans.
For your information veterans disabilities have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be service connected.
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Posted by Republican Wildcat to Militiaman7; Admin Moderator
On Jun 20 2:42 AM #11 of 12

There's nothing in this article that says the President is threatening to veto the bill, only that advisors would recommend it. Your title is a gross deviation from the original title regardless.
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Posted by Militiaman7 to Republican Wildcat
On Jun 20 2:45 AM #12 of 12

The Senate on Wednesday defied a White House threat that President Bush will use his first veto against a $393 billion defense bill if Congress extends full retirement pay to disabled veterans.

This says it all.

For more info on the VA: Department of Veterans Affairs

For more info on Concurrent Reciept at: Uniformed Service Disabled Retirees

Here is a good example. I was shot in the neck in Viet Nam, The bullet took a turn and hit my lung. Three years later I had to take a medical retirement after having 8 years in. I had lost 5 muscle goups in my right side and back. My Romboid, trapizoid, and three minor groups. My sholder blade just floats around. After three years of rehab. The Navy gave me 40% of my base pay. In 1998 ( after 16 months of seeing doctors, having tests and many xrays) the VA upgraded me to 60%. The xrays show a 1.5 inch space between the ball and socket joint at my right shoulder from lack of muscles holding my arm in place over the last 33 years. I used to be right handed but for 33 years I have had very limited movement on that arm accompanied by never ending paine.

This bill will not do any thing for me because I did not spend 20 years in the military.

On the other hand I know a gal who has never seen combat and is a proud socialist screwing around the system, and she is considered a Vet. She is also disabled because she has MS. I am not sure if she would benefit in this bill.

Indeed, the issue here should be: who has seen combat and was expanded susbstantialy by the armed forces as opposed to those using the armed forces for their own consumerist welfare social purposes. Of course those who survived combat unscathed but took great risks should get some form of benefit too, as well as those risking their lives every day today because of their abilities consumed in combat through disabling wounds.

Of course, last but not least, is Bush's spending on 3rd world crap and then HYPOCRITICALY calling this spending bill sinful. It's one thing for forbiding others to spend too much money on others, it is another thing when that person asks to be worshiped politicaly because that same person spends our money for third world causes like a soccermom using the neighborhood's money to "help the children". The senate too is looking for political worship in there too, however the Senate did not start this particular hypocrisy (though Dashle has been the obstructionist in chief too).

The issue is that our system is breaking down because of the hypocrisy going on. Jurisdictions are not protected because of the political worship factor that violates all those jurisdictions.

Of course, last but not least, is Bush's spending on 3rd world crap and then HYPOCRITICALY calling this spending bill sinful.

Well I hope you have some vitriol for Jesse Helms about the 3rd world spending, since he was one of the biggest backers.

Semms that mitiaman7 has left out the part where this will cost $29 billion over 10 years. Close to over 30 times the cost of the one time $500,000,000 cost for 3rd world Aids prevention.

Miltiaman's post is the epitomie of a chicken little, vitriol starting, not all the facts presented thread that has been seen too much lately on FR.

That system is diseased. A soldier wounded in combat should have greater benefits than one wounded in training or non-conflict duty. It shouldn't be based on length of service, it should be based on a system that values battlefield injuries received by veterans higher than routine workplace injuries regrdless of time of service.

I am so sorry for your condition ... you have my utmost gratitude and humble honor. But your injury is not comparable in any measurable way to a guy who pops a knee lifting a case of motor oil from a supply truck. Your injury is more important and deserving of tribute than the normal skeletal and muscle injuries that happen with all physical labor.

hetzman, your unfair situation is something I can get behind. My Senator Paul Wellstone is a freak, but he DOES chair the Veterans Affair committee I do believe (or he's a member, they're all equal Olympic Gods in that place). I'll be happy to place a call to his office on your behalf. Private e-mail me if you want me to, I can usually get to someone there who can rattle cages. I'll give him your phone number ... I thinks someone will call. That's a policy that needs review. Regards!

Sorry for intruding on your alls conversation, but thank you for your lucidity on a thread that was intentionally started without any.

If people could get over their intial knee jerk reactions and look at all the facts, things could get done.

I respect your points. However the standard of living in the US is probably 30 times that of the third world too. There are plenty of numerators and denominators in any form of money spending priorities by the government. It's a socialist nightmare for sure.

Indeed, as much as I hate to consider people for consumption, that is the fact of war and the military (pure consumption of the enemy's fighting and health abilities). In finance there is a risk reward ratio that is not perfect but at least sizable through a benchmark. A private company would do much better than the government is in pulling out a truly scientific benefit scenario. A healthy soldier who goes back to civilian life is a very liquid asset too. The loss of this liquidity needs to be accounted too. Then there are accounting, market and liquidation values, and many other values, that all conflict with each other.

In the end a government by the people has to fight on two fronts:

1. jurisdictional duty and care forces someone somewhere to help the ones in real need. This is the work of individual and local groups for veterans that have a claim that should be mandated.

2. Fighting against chaotic forces as a nation means one cannot fully rely on market values, since the market sometimes does profit from the unfortunate situations of some, as price gouging proves. This is of a wider more general job that Federal jurisdiction could undertake.

But I think many are losing the purposes of government and what is a reasonable jurisdiction of the Federal and a reasonable demand of duty from individuals.

militiaman apparently does not have top-of-the-mind access to his particuar injuries, his disability, his current pension and suppliment, his potential pension and suppliment if this bill is signed, and the processes and review mandates that are employed to ensure that a veteran's condition IS a result of active duty injury, that his infirmity is authentic, and that the % of disability is practical. I have a 100% disability to work as an ESPN World's Stongman Competition professional or a Jewish Rabbi. But I have 0% disbility to work 99.99% of other jobs.

He sure was pissed though. Maybe he should have saved his painful diatribe and just linked us to the two websites that apparently tell it all. What a crock.

There is so much room for fraud and manipulation and historical revisionsm in these programs. Dane, how do you know your backache this morning was from napping poorly on the couch yesterday or from hauling your girlfriend around on your back during Summerfest in 1980? Maybe it was swinging that 2 iron in 1991. That was a real fat hit. It's bull.

hetzman's story is important. A guy who took a bullet into the throat lung area is automatically a 100% to me - that WILL have a debilitating effect over the years. Some guy who fell of a ladder at base and dislocated his shoulder in 1985? Now he's virtually paralyzed, an 80%er? Sorry.

I can understand people getting emotional over this issue, but the intentional misleading, IMHO, by the original poster of this thread is way over the top.

hetzman's story is important. A guy who took a bullet into the throat lung area is automatically a 100% to me - that WILL have a debilitating effect over the years. Some guy who fell of a ladder at base and dislocated his shoulder in 1985? Now he's virtually paralyzed, an 80%er? Sorry.

I agree with you 100% and applaud you calling your Senator on hetzman's behalf. The point I was making that miltiaman7's original post was missing many facts and way over the top emotionally.

I don't think that combat is the issue. Sure if someone gets injured in combat it is a little more dramatic, but anyone who volintarly has set aside a block of there life to serve for our country, and has received a life changing injury during that time, should be compansated, and if the put in there time, should also receive a retirement. Its only right.

Every year I watch in amazement as the self serving politicians vote them selves a 3-4,000 dollar raise and would only allow a 2 - 2.5% cost of living allowance raise for the disabled vets. That didn't even keep up with inflation. I'm lucky, at least I can earn an some income, there are many who can,t. I hope that this bill can at least help a few make ends meet. God knows they deserve it. </p.

"To: Dane It's not even philisophical or political differences around here that are the conflict. It's people who deceive, mislead, defraud and disrespect JR, FR and everyone else here vs. the truth. ... But this isn't about education or enlightenment anymore Dane, it's about poisoning and deceiving and self-pleasuring in misery. It's about dickheads with no respect or consideration for the integrity of discourse on this forum. I'm at a point where I do not take a SINGLE anti-Bush analysis or presentation as honest. That sucks."
17 posted on 6/20/02 2:50 AM Pacific by ArneFufkin

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I know what you mean.

First, thank you for your service Militiaman7.

I have always believed our tax dollars should be spent at home on our own BEFORE a dime ever goes to foreign aid.

It's a pipe dream, I know.

Our country seems too large to mobilize a force to stop the abusive use of our tax dollars.

It would be wonderful to have a country wide strike of workers to protest the way our government spends OUR money.

My father who we just buried in Arlington two weeks ago was disability retired and after death the disability pay stops so the spouse gets zip.